WARNING! VERY SUBJECTIVE POST! Comments welcome!
Tonight members of the UK Parliament will vote on a new Law, or rather a change in an existing one.
At the time of writing, the maximum legal term allowed for an abortion is 24 weeks. If the embryo ("foetus" to abortionists, "unborn child" for anti-abortionists) is older than 24 weeks, it is illegal to perform an abortion. Tonight it will be decided whether to lower this to 20 weeks.
The reasoning behind this is cited as improvements in embryo survival rate in premature children. Although this data refers to embryos born after 24 weeks, it is decided tonight whether it may apply to embryos between 20 and 24 weeks.
The Catholic Church's stand on this is as it has always been: "Abortion is murder". Other bodies of people object on moral ground. The question remains: After how many weeks does it become wrong, if ever or never?
Facts aside, there is another viewpoint other than "Is it right or wrong, and if wrong, after how many weeks?".
It is this:
For nine months, the embryo resides in another person's body, feeding off that body as the "host" ingests food for it to grow and survive upon.
It may sound a callous way of putting it, but essentially these are the facts as to what is happening.
I can even think of a name for the embryo during those stages.
A parasite.
What do you do with parasites?
Squish them .
Wednesday, May 21, 2008
Age-old Debate
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7 comments:
Looks like you struck out there, my dear.
Not so, not-so, my comments are coming soon. I needed a little extra time for this one.
I have never stated my views in a public forum on abortion, so this is a first for me. It may require a series of comments from me, so if you comment on what I say or ask a question, please be advised you may not get an immediate reply from me, although I will eventually attempt to reply, if possible. Having said this, let me begin this way:
I do not believe in abortion for any reason and I think no honest, intelligent person does. I won't attempt to explain this, for the sake of the larger subject. Abortion is the most controversial issue in the United States. Look it up. There has been murders of doctors, and one is subject to death threats, for not holding to someone's ideal view of this issue, even when you are a mere commoner, as Brits would say. I am not sure how the rest of the Western World treats this issue, but in the USA, it will likely play a major role in our upcoming Presidential election, even given all the other important issues that might seem even more pressing to the average individual in the world. Now, onward.
Be not confused by my stated view of abortion, for that is primarily a Philosophical view wrought out of my religious and moral beliefs as they stand at the moment. At my age, I remember when abortion was clearly illegal, in all or nearly all, 50 of the U.S. states. This did not prevent what were called "Back Room Abortions", sometimes with a coathanger used as the tool to perform the procedure. So, this informs all my thoughts on this subject, whatever my belief is about abortion. I accept, at most you can only legally reduce the number of abortions, but you can never end it. A near infinity of reasons why women will seek abortion can be found, if one could live that long. Therefore, even the next blogpost seems appropriate to this issue.
Since someone out there will always seek abortion and someone will always seek to make money off of abortion, the salient point is how to make abortion as humane as possible, for those who feel they must choose this route in life. We need not judge them. Society should equip its people to deal with living life better.
Men walk away from their resposibility for getting women pregnant too often. Still, if a man can be forced by a court to pay for a child that is born, then society and courts should give more weight to a man's thoughts when it comes to a woman he has impregnated who seeks an abortion. This potential major issue has actually led either our Federal Courts or the Supreme Court to rule a man has no right in a woman's decision to have an abortion. This allows a woman to potentially ratliate against a man, even her husband possibly by aborting a child out of anger or revenge. A man has only one right, to pay if she has the baby. Totally illogical and wrong. Yet, this is how things stand today as one example of how bizarre the politics of this issue are.
The British idea of reducing from 24 weeks to 20 the law on abortions may indeed be a change based strictly on the improved survival rates of premature babies, but there is evidence that premature babies have more health complications throughout life, even into adulthood, as I recall. Is this not worth considering for what it could do to a parent or entire family financially and otherwise? Not to mention the expense and other social implications for all of society.
The Catholic Church understandably opposes abortion, but they should not actively work to prevent it, for who knows better, that we do not live in a perfect world, but a world of sin and sinners? Even Christ seems more forgiving than the Catholic Church and most other mainstream Christian religions. Sadly, we have left the Garden of Eden, and man is not going to return us to it. The Church and others attempt to rule in the same sense Christ condemned the Jewish religious leaders of ruling in His day. Learn from that example, will you!
The parasite view, though reasonable, probably fails both scientificly and logically after some point. Besides, how else does one propose that we perpetuate our species? Still, this brings me to point out that parasite or not, the day is coming with you will be able to either remove it at conception by moving it from womb to lab or the entire 9 months can be done test tube baby style, as science fiction has often dreamed. Thus, would dropping and breaking a test tube be murder?
Well, this has been a start. I am sure it is only a start and not the best start at that. There are so many issues connected with abortion and so many things not considered or simply rejected out of hand. I hope this generates comments from others; mostly civil, I hope. I never heard the outcome of the vote, but this issue will return again and again. These are individuals who seek abortion with individual reasons. Yet, it is Group Think that opposes them and Group Think that supports them. It is easy for a mass of people to attack one individual. But when I see a coathanger in my closet or laying out anywhere, I am reminded, it could easily become an abortion tool again in some Backroom Abortion Mill. Think about that everyone. Remember that God judges you too, with whatever judgment you judge others. Amen.
Recently it was revealed in Austria that a father had kidnapped, imprisoned, and impregnated his own daughter from age 17 until her recent freedom 20 years later (this year) producing 8 children. Might she have wished to abort any of those kids, who were also imprisoned with her? Might she today, within a legitimate marriage, become pregnant, then realize her past has been so tormented she would prefer abortion over giving any child such an unusually traumatized Mother?
What about rape and incest, which seems to know no age limit, but does lead to young girls and grown women being pregnant with a child they not only do not want, but may despise, because of how they became pregnant? Can you even ask a woman or teen to carry hatred for 9 months, then simply give that child up for adoption at birth? Wouldn't hate invoke stress hormones that might have a wide variety of effects on the child's entire lifetime? Then too, would that not be 9 months of punishment for being an innocent victim?
And what of the family that is too poor to afford any kind of birth control, yet may choose abortion over birth, for strictly financial and life circumstances? Then too, if abortion is not even an affordable option, are we not in a sense playing God by condemning a whole family to worse destitution?
My point is how individual these events are and how few abortions take place, without a great deal of thought going into it. Even so, it is probable more thought needs to go into the pre-abortion stage, given that too much political thought invades every phase of the abortion issue from both sides. While with teens, shouldn't parents know, and in some cases, won't a teen know what is best for herself due to a lack of parental understanding? There are simply too many issues connected with abortion not to treat each case as individual as they tend to be.
Teen pregnancy and teenage abortion is a subcategory all its own, making it an almost totally separate subject. Yet, this subcategory, in part, drives the entire issue for teens and adults.
I will stop here for the moment by closing with these thoughts. When I was young, I knew a few teenage girls who became pregnant, with various outcomes, none being abortion to my knowledge. I knew second or third hand of a girl or two being raped, strictly as a story passed to me by others, with a rumor that one raped girl was pregnant, but I moved away before I ever knew the truth or falsehood of this rumor. I think this is true for most of us in our teen years. Abortion politics has repercussions at this level of living life too, which gets little consideration. You can oppose anything on principle, but reality must be given its proper due, to get things as right as possible, even if not as righteous as possible.
Wyman, you are very smart!
"i'm not so", thank you for your compliment. I have only lived long and thought much. David, thanks for reminding me I must do my own blogpost on "God, Dinosaurs, and Creation" someday. I understand, Darwinians claim dinosaurs existed and died off before man arrived on Earth, so you could almost argue this as a good reason for leaving dinosaurs out of the Bible, if that is an accurate understanding I have on Darwinians (Evolutionists). Then too, the Bible is not meant to be a complete history of everything, but I appreciate your open opinions.
My guess too is unborn babies can feel at some point, but whether the brain is there with the pain center in place, I am not sure. A chicken will often run around once its head is chopped off, but this does not mean the chicken needs no head. Medically speaking, there are actually some people born who can feel no pain their whole lives, but I doubt we would want to say killing them is okay, for they feel no pain.
Abortion is very different from whether God exists because dinosaurs almost certainly did exist. Feeling or not feeling pain is a kind of redherring, used by both sides, with what we could assume is all the best of intentions by both sides. "Abortion is the elimination of what we assume has a high probability of becoming a born, living, breathing, human being." That is why I oppose abortion on the surface. One could counter that birth control pills, other devices, and even the ancient of all devices, the condom, is at least an attempt to prevent conception, an arguably rudimentary form of abortion or pre-abortion act, not really sanctioned by the Bible or Nature. But I leave this behind for now, given the probable modern reaction to that, even by some religious folks. You see, science says getting pregnant without any preventatives is not as easy as we think, although I wonder sometimes when I look at our people-filled planet. But we need not get into self-control being the most virtuous and effective way to prevent unwanted pregnancies. That would ruin our discussion.
At a later time, I hope to get to the Asian East taking a different view on abortion than the West, particularly China. Maybe if I do not tire of the subject I will get into how there can be emotional and physical repercussions from having an abortion, which often get short shrift in any discussion. We sometimes forget hormones are involved and many chemical things are going on when an abortion suddenly terminates all of this. Rather like that chicken with the missing head, certain processes continue, then the brain and body must figure out why there is suddenly no need for those processes, which it assumes to be an information processing error.
You see, the subject is abortion, but each of us come to the issue with our own particular informed background. I stated my main background, but must leave it to others to decide if it misinforms the thoughts I offer. Rather like saying, had Einstein said that the Bible and morality informed him that E=MC squared was the profound thing it was, his conclusion would have still been right, even if his background proved irrelevant to the world, as it related to his conclusion. We are looking to advance our understanding. Later we can ask, who started to that understanding from the right road.
Thanks for the laughs. Nice to have those along the road of such a serious discussion. Let me confess, I think I am the oldest one here writing on this subject, so have been thinking on it longer than some of you have been alive. I like to think I am intelligent, but I have had years to mentally prepare for this day. Not that I am doing great, I'm not. I am encouraging those who read my thoughts to think and prepare their hearts on this subject for the sake of the best informed future we can create. This, like some other subjects, have political agendas that will try to attach themselves to your reasoning, without you realizing it. When reason finally fails you, then you are left with what Dave does not seem to believe in falling back on, FAITH. There is a lot to be said for Dave's point of view, but faith on some issues are all you are left with, at times. But if logic is hard, knowing when to go only on faith is even harder. This goes beyond logic into the spiritual realm. Most, if not all, fail even more miserably there than they failed in the logical realm.
Life is a mystery and as the Bible says, pardon me Dave, but this is wisdom, "we see through a glass darkly." Abortion is the subject, preparation for spiritual enemies is my goal for you. Yet, I too, am ignorant. Let us hope a wiser teacher comes along. Okay, back to abortion.
P.S.--Consider that Jesus, Hitler, and Einstein might have been aborted. Might this have been a different world? If so, then we are living in a different world today than it might be, due to abortion. I have no way of knowing if that is good or bad.
Point well taken Dave. I think you can assume your point was "covered" by my "condom" comment (pardon, but pun intended, for I couldn't help myself). CAUTION: What I say next should NOT be immediately acted upon, for it was only one of those strange studies, which I don't know how scientists get the money to do such things or have the fortitude and perverseness to do them, but...: According to a recent study, MEN, who MASTURBATE, tend to have less PROSTATE cancer than those who DON'T. Gentlemen, please look around to see where you are before... immediately acting on this bit of news. You may still be able to find it by searching Yahoo News.
(Please don't tell Aki I was here for I am taking Wednesdays off from my computer, but have to do, uh, umm, a Health Risk Assessment survey in connection with my health insurance at work. Sure hope they limit their prostate questions to the usual, "Have you had and PSA and what was the score?" Then too, is the answer to this question going to have future moral implications on whether to retain an employee or not? Feel I have a future blogpost thanks to you making me think of this, Dave. Thanks!!!)
Also Dave, on your "Fetus is not a life", I covered that too by my words, "Abortion is the elimination of what we assume has a high probability of becoming a born, living, breathing, human being." Otherwise, why would there be a need to abort it? Please continue your comments Dave. They are fine comments and help to clarify the subject. Hope I gave you and others a laugh or two today.
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